A Return to Chaos

So I played WoC the last year of 7^th and the first year of 8^th and had a ton of success.  I moved on and played a Carno led Lizardman army and Orcs and Goblins the last couple of years and am currently experimenting with HE.  With the US Masters coming up in a couple of months, I decided to dust off the WoC and play some serious games to see the viability of taking the army to the event. 

Holyyyyy Crap.  You ever wear ankle weights for a week and then take them off?  You feel lighter and stronger immediately.  That is the sensation I feel while playing WoC.  Hell, I am playing a far from optimized list and it still feels that way.  Frankly if you make a mistake, your troops have a decent chance of fighting their way out of it.  Oh, and not having to worry about your army being taken off by a single Purple Sun is awesome!

I am not sure how long my return to Chaos will last (I still may take Lizards to the Masters), but I am going to enjoy the time!

Hinge

The Hobby Wobbles

Definition:  When a hobbyist has the inability to focus on a single project, but rather jumps from one to another and not competing any. 

Yeah, I have them bad.  I have three projects/tournaments at the start of next year and am playing three different armies.

Waagh Paca-

This is an awesome tournament in the frigid wastes of Wisconsin.  I plan on playing my O&G.  In fact, I vowed to do so, so no going back.  However, army lists are 2000 rather than the normal 2,500 and I am having a tough time slimming down my normal O&G list.  One change though is to take standard Big ‘uns rather than Savage Orc Big ‘uns.  I know I am giving up a good deal of hitting power and survivability.  However, frenzy is a big liability and I made the strategic blunder of challenging one of the mid-wests top players for the first round.  I suspect he would make me pay for bringing frenzy troops.  There are a couple of other advantages to taking the Standard Big’uns.  First I do not have to pay the Lucky Shrunken Head tax, allowing me to spend points on other items as well as another arcane slot.  It also allows me to take a magic banner as well.  This may be very important as fitting both a L4 and a Warboss into a 2000 point list is unlikely.  I would not want to depend on a leadership 8 for a five game tournament.  The problem is I have no regular orcs painted, so will need to model and paint 30 of them.  Time to get cracking!  As I settle in on the final list for this event, I will post it.

US Masters-

I have been invited to the US Masters. The US Masters uses the Swedish comp system and whatever army I bring will require a redesign of my normal tournament list.  I am lending my O&G to one of my club mates, so that option is out.  My first thought is Lizardmen.  I have the majority of models and they are well painted.  However the list I am contemplating needs 36 Suarus and I have only 20 as well as a couple of scar vet heroes.  More painting.  I could rush my HE but I really do not want my first tournament with this army to be the US Masters J  WoC is another option but the army is a little long in the tooth and can use some tender loving care.  Not to mention I may need to paint a Demon prince or Skull Crushers!

Lone Wolf-

My plan is that Lonewolf will be the first tournament I play my High Elves.  This is the project that has most of my interest right now and I am excited to get them out on the table.  I have just finished assembling the army and painting a couple of test models.  Alas I will have to set it aside until I wrap up the two previous projects.  I think this is life as a hobbyist.  The project you are most excited about is the one on the back burner.

Well back to painting!

FAN-aTICS

I am a frequent poster on COTEC and in discussions I often bring up how I feel O&G is a hard counter to WoC.   Invariably fanatics come up.  Now these are a danger to WoCs high value/low model count army.  The pat counter seems to be “I will use my van guarding warhound unit to pull the fanatics”.  I have to smile every time I see this. 

In my local group, there is a constant back and forth in fanatic and anti-fanatic tactics.  I thought I would share some of the tactics and counters to fanatic pullers in one article.  Since I will be posting this both on COTEC as well as my blog, it will have a WoC v. O&G theme but the following tactics should apply for any match up.

Setting the Stage

My typical O&G force has 3 individual chariots, 2 wolf units, and 2 solo trolls.  This is 7 units compromising 360 points that I can potentially drop before I even have to think about dropping a unit with fanatics.  It takes a very chaff heavy army to match this.  If an army can, they likely will pull the fanatics no matter what I do by sheer dint of cheap units.  Most O&G armies I have seen have 4-7 units of chaff, so my build is not out of line.

This leads me to my first problem with the van guarding hounds theory.  In countless tournament games, I have never seen a WoC player not drop all his hound units first.  This gives me an opportunity to deploy my fanatic units away from them.  A WoC player may recognize this but reserving a hound unit until later in deployment may lead to other problems.  Will there be room in the deployment zone to place the hound where needed?  If I have forced you to drop something more valuable earlier then you usually do, have I already not gained an advantage?  As I will show you, I can easily keep the hounds from getting to the fanatics even if I want to drop the unit opposite the hounds.  With that said, I think you should give up a small advantage and hold those hounds, or better fast cav until later in deployment.

Fanatic Tactics

The ideal tactics involve setting up the release of fanatics so that an opposing unit is forced to run over them.  The best is releasing in response to a charge.  With the ability of O&G to take a very solid artillery line, an enemy that sits back and avoids engagement could be in serious trouble.

Screaming across the front

This involves throwing the fanatics out of the unit across the face of your own unit, once again in response to a charge.  This ensures that a successful charge is eating 2d6 per fanatic.    It works best with either a wide unit or throwing across the face of an adjacent unit. 

As I understand it, the guy who won the SCGT in England had a 100 man poison shooting NG unit.  I imagine he used this tactic, as illustrated.  Here a Skull Crusher unit declares a charge, makes the roll, and stops 8” away.  The Goblin player can throw fanatics directly at the SC but some will hit and pass through for only 1d6, or you can throw across the front and guarantee they have to run across all three. 

Here is how I would use it.  Same situation but the SC are charging my Savages.  I may need to clip my unit to make it work but that is ok. 

Counters/anti counter-

The weakness of this tactic is that the fanatic units are on the front line.  This makes them very susceptible to early pulling by chaff.  Yes, that includes those pesky van guarding war hounds.  However, I am more likely to deploy like this. 

I have an advantage in a solid artillery line, so it behooves me to delay engagement, hence it is my chaff/anti chaff on the front line while the main units are farther back.  I have placed my Fanatic unit 7.5 inches back from the deployment line.  If you choose to vanguard your hounds up, you are depending on first turn (which you likely have the +1) but must stop 1 inch away from my units and unable to release the units.  Since you van guarded, you cannot charge my units and get closer.  I can always counter charge or perhaps get first turn and run the hounds off.  I have range advantage with the chariot, so you should never be able to close.  The troll is not worried about hounds and can interpose itself until it has something more important to do.  Finally, the best target of those crappy short bows on the chariot is the hounds.  A patient game will play into my hands.  The deployment also leads into the next tactic. 

The sling shot

By setting up behind my SO or trolls, I have an opportunity to throw the fanatics through the unit at a charging unit.  SO have a 5+ ward while the trolls have 4+ regen to help offset the wounds they take.  The charging unit will take the 2d6 hits on any roll of 7 or less (1d6 on a 8+) and then face an angry hammer unit.  The best set up is to make sure the 8” trigger point is an inch and half in front of your unit.  So the fanatic has a spot to stop, to close it will just carry through the charger. 

Counter/anti counter. 

The best counter to this is to move a chaff unit up to trigger the fanatics and force the O&G player to throw them out in awkward places.  Of course this also means you have survived the anti-chaff measures illustrated above.  Another option in the face of heavy chaff is to simply have them 8 inches back from the front line.  It is not ideal but you guarantee hitting the enemy unit (as well as yours) if they charge.  Of course they could just charge one of those cheap units in.    A final option is to have the fanatic unit even further back and move up on a subsequent turn to throw the fanatics through the ongoing combat.

Much of this tactic is dependent on the makeup of the opposing army.  An army like WoC with lots of high value/hard hitting models, it is worth throwing fanatics through your own units.  Against something like Skaven, not so much. 

Other Observations

Terrain. 

Terrain is death for fanatics.  As you deploy, look for approaches that take you through terrain.  It is likely the O&G player will deploy his fanatics away from these pieces and may give you an indication how he will deploy.  It is worth the occasional Dangerous Terrain test!

Flyers.

Flyers are the hardest thing to counter.  A good O&G player will try and set up zones where you cannot land but the ability hop over terrain from hiding and approach from odd angles makes it tough.  Flyers of all types are my first targets for all artillery.  Of course, flyers are also the best units at getting to warmachines, which means fanatic pulling may not be the best use for them.

2 for 1.

Look for O&G players who put their fanatic units to close together.  You may be able to move a single wide and mobile unit (skinks come to mind) up such it pulls the fanatics of two units at the same time. 

The late wheel

Every charger gets a free wheel.  A single model unit that can delay its wheel until after fanatics are released may be able to navigate and miss some/all of them.  Not a great tactic but something to keep in mind. 

Final Thoughts

I like fanatics because it causes my opponent to expend resources and effort in dealing with them.  Often these resources would be better spent dealing with my chaff or hunting my artillery.  However, if they are left alone, fanatics will often tip the balance of a critical combat.  2 tend to be just fine for me though I will sometimes play a list with 4. 

I would love to hear other tactics or counters if people have them. 

Hinge 

The High Elfs

So with the pending release of Dark Elves, I have kicked the painting on the High Elves in gear.  Here is the army list I have been toying with.

Loremaster, Book of Hoeth, ToP

Noble, BSB, Reaver Bow, PoT of Strength, Dragon Armor, shield, Halberd 

15 Archers, Banner, Mus

10 Archers, Banner, Mus

6 SilverHelms, Mus, Std, shields

5 Reavers, Mus

5 Reavers, Mus

15 Phoenix Guard, Mus, Std, Razor Std.

16 White Lions, Std, BotWD

6 Dragon Princes, Std, Mus, Banner of Eternal Flame

Tiranoc Chariot

5 Sisters

Flamespyre Phoenix

2x Eagle Claws

2x1 Eagles

A lot of drops.  I think the big change for me is two very expensive banners.  The first is the hated BotWD.  I thought long and hard about including this.  It is on a 16 man unit, which makes it very, very fragile but pricey.  This goes against my basic MSU philosophy in that all units are expendable.  Losing this one hurts and I had better be prepared to win it back.  Also, the temptation to stick characters in the unit is going to be great, making it even a bigger target.  Add that in this list I generally do not want my characters in combat (unlike my last three armies), I am going to have to be very careful with how I use this unit.  However, against certain match ups I think it will show well.  I also have some good ideas from my old WoC list that may come into play.

The other is the PG unit with Razor Banner.  This unit is proving to be more durable then I had originally thought.  -2 to the armor save makes it harder hitting then you would think, especially since it hits a lot.  Throw in 2 hexes and a buff spell and it is dicey engaging this unit. 

Flamespyre Phoenix.  I know that conventional wisdom says to take Frosty.  It is too damn good.  I have my reasons for going this route.  First, every High Elf list now has frosty, time to differentiate.  Second, Monsters are moving to the fore as far as Meta, which means you can expect to see many cannons.  I am trying to minimize cannon targets so you have wasted the points.  The fact that you can shoot me down and I can come back to life later means those cannon shots are wasted.  Or you can shoot at 70 point models.  Third, like all MSU, I will struggle against steadfast.  Wake of Fire should make those units pay.  Finally, the paint scheme on the sisters came out so well, with the flaming bows v. the cloaks, this will be an army wide color scheme.  With most of the primary color being a super light blue, having the center piece model contrast should be awesome.  Oh and I get to sculpt flames on the base!

I think this army can play several different way depending on match up.  The critical element I feel is that I can get the edge on the Chaff war then grab the initiative. 

Hinge

PS  I will get a picture up of progress when I get a chance

Status/Futureof Waagh Hinge and the Crossroads

So I have been trying to think of the best way to approach this post.  I think the best way is just to put it out there.

My family suffered a loss and I had to cancel my trip to New York and the Crossroads.  During the time that I have sought escape in the hobby I enjoy, I am disappointed that I did not get a chance to tip a beer and roll dice with some of the East Coast crowd I met earlier this year.  My goal is two North East tourneys in 2014!

So enough depressing stuff.


Waagh Hinge has one more challenge.  That is Waagh Paca in Wisconsin in January.  To top it off, I have challenged Mike Gerrold to a first round grudge match.  Mike is one of the best players in the country and his string of Best Overalls in the Mid West is mighty impressive.  I know this is not the best way to go about winning a tournament but I relish the challenge and figure this game is worth the trip all on its own!

So now it is on to dropping my list to 2000 points.  AS I circle around what this will be, I will throw a post up.

Hinge

Crossroads Warhammer Tournament list

So in a couple of weeks I will be traveling across the country to New York for the Crossroads Tournament.  I will be traveling solo, leaving my Leadership 2 club behind.  A couple of New York players are allowing me to hitch a ride to the venue (in upstate NY) and crash their hotel room.  I plan on repaying their kindness by drinking all their beer.

I will be playing my Orcs and Goblins once again.  However, I am making some significant changes to the Wyvern list I had been playing.  A little of this are the scenarios for the tournament.  Several of them call for a “scoring” unit, defined as a unit consisting of a full rank and with at least one command model.  With lots of points tied up in the Wyvern and Arock, this limits the number of these units.  However the prime motivator is a different scoring system then what I am used to here on the West Coast.  Here on the West Coast (and Texas), most of the tournaments play a W/L/D scoring system.  What I like about this is it allows me to take more aggressive lists with some sub-optimal units that I take just because I like them (fluff, model, because they are supposed to be crappy, whatever).  After all, whether I lose by 100 or 2500, it is all the same.  It is the same for wins, which has led to a style of play that gives up lots of points, making it a much more enjoyable game on both side’s part and perhaps leading to some better sportsmanship scores.  Even if I pull that one match up that I get tabled in, I can shoot to win the other 4, focus on getting objective points, and combine with generally high soft scores, finish in the top 10. 

Crossroads is using a 0-16 scoring system with 4 objective points available.  Under this system, I cannot afford a “bad” loss and have opted for a more conservative list.  It still has plenty of chaff and units, allowing me to compete in the movement phase.  I can play an aggressive game if I wish, or I can bunker down and attempt to minimize a bad match up.

Crossroads list

Black Orcs Warboss, General, shield, Dragon Helm, ToP, Crown of Command

This is the first list I have ever taken to a tourney with a CoC.  The General will go into the Savage orc unit.  Since this unit is smaller than you would normally find, I felt it important to make sure they stick around as long as possible.  Doubly so since the unit will contain both the General and L4.

Savage Orc Shaman, L4, Lucky Shrunken Head, Obsidian Amulet, Warrior Bane, PoT of Speed.

Fairly standard, however I have given up the Fencers blade in favor of MR 2.  This does a couple of things for me.  First, unlike most orc players, Foot tends to stomp on me rather than continuing on.  This will protect my most important unit from my own spell.  Second, Death Magic.  The entire lore hoses me.  This will allow me to ignore snipe spells in favor of stopping Purple Sun, Doom, or Soulblight.  Warrior Bane is there to add a magic weapon for the occasional ethereal units. 

Goblin BSB-Naked

His sole purpose is to run around behind the lines and wave a flag.  I should have given him the damn Banner of Flame.  I am disappointed that I missed this opportunity to stick some flaming into the army. 

Night Goblin Shaman, L2, Scroll

Scroll caddy and magic support.  People forget about the Gobbo lore attribute!  I thought hard about putting the Ruby Ring on him and wish I had.  Oh well.

Goblin Big Boss, Wolf, LA, Enchanted Shield, DB Gem, Shrieking Blade

Great for hunting Kdai’s, Hewxwraiths, ethereal, small units with Flaming Banner not to mention a nice cheap redirector. 

30 Savage Orc Big ‘uns, FC, XHW

The ubiquitous SO unit in every O&G list, if a bit smaller.  I must get these guys engaged.  I have lost every game when they have not fought. 

20 Night Goblins, Std, Mus, 2x Fanatics, Nets

20 Night Goblins, Std, Mus, Short Bows

5 Wolf Riders, Spears, Shield, Mus

I went back and forth on these three units.  My core compromises all my “scoring” units.  I generally run 2 fast cav units and 1 NG unit and one scenario this may be the more beneficial option.  However, there is also a Blood and Glory Scenario as well another scenario where model count of the scoring units is important.  The other option was to have the second NG unit with 2 x fanatics, however I felt the Nets were more important.  Superior players are just too good at drawing out fanatics and time and again I have found the nets to be key to winning a fight.

30 Squigs, 11 Herders

I went back and forth on whether to take this unit of Black Orcs.  The Black Orcs would give me a Flaming Banner as well as another scoring unit.  However, I have a nice unit filler and this unit will act as a center piece unit.  I expect it to die gloriously while putting a big dent in my opponents forces.

2 x 1 Trolls

Redirectors. 

3 x 1 Wolf Chariots

Anti chaff and combat enhancers

. 

2 x 1 Spear Chukkas

2 x 1 Doom Divers

Rock Lobba

This is the max warmachines allowed under the comp packet (4 with 2 for 1’s counting as a single choice)

2 x 1 Mangler

Enough said

Pump Wagon, Spikey Roller, Out-rigga, Giant Exploding Spores. 

This is a new addition for me.  It will be interesting how this unit works out.  It can be potentially devastating.

I only got 4 games in before I had to submit the list.  It could stand a little more play testing (where I would have picked up the option to add a magic banner to the BSB).  I lost to an optimized DoC army and managed to win a small local con tourney.  Fortunately the small tourney used a 20 nil scoring system and I was able to really get a feel of playing under that style.  Ended up with a small loss to Beasts and large wins against High Elfs and Ogres.  

Waagh Hinge pushes inland

Sorry for the delay.  I had a trek to the mountains, braving smoke and fire to dominate all in Beer Pong as well as a con tournament that distracted my attention.  On to the conclusion of Game 1 of the Lustria Campaign.

Lizard Turn 1-

The cold one bus promptly declares a charge against the Savage Orcs.  Without steadfast, they break and are run down along with my BSB and L4.  In one go, I have thrown away my numerical advantage!.  The second skink unit moves onto the board.  The Terradons drop rocks on the tail end wolf riders, killing 2, but the gobo hero keeps them in place.

 During the magic phase, Flock puts 2 wounds on the Mangler.   

The Salamander roasts 10 night goblins, who shakily stand their ground.  However, the lizards seemed to have forgotten to bring their poison and all other shots are ineffective. 

Orcs Turn 1-

The wolves counter charge the terradons, bravely passing through the hurled javelins.  The Mangler goes bounding towards the Basilidon with murderous intent while Warboss Hinge eyes the giant steg on the hill.  He has heard they are good eating!  The gobo shaman, seeing a chance to impress Hinge, orders his body guard to turn towards the sallie and release the fanatics.  One plows throw the creature but only kills 1 of the handlers.  In the front of the column, wolves and chariots prepare to protect the warmachines from skinks while Arock whips around the house.  Is it to hide from the CO bus or perhaps he saw some tasty morsels out that way. 

The warmachines un limber.  The bolt thrower scores a hit on the Basilidon but fails to wound.  Both doom divers prove shockingly ineffective, scoring a single wound on the armored creature.  The Rock Lobba still is unloading its ammo and seems it will be out of action for another turn. 

In a shocking display of martial skill the Wolf riders slay a Terradon with with the loss of one of their own, but fail to run the terradons down down. 

Lizardmen Turn 2

The Steg goes rumbling down the hill and smashes the troll to pulp.  The cold one bus turns to start a rampage down the line.  A skink unit enters a house to toss javelins at the giant spider while the priest continues to cower behind it.  It was placed such that any one of my units that could charge were in the models front arc, which was sheltered by the house.  The terradons fail to rally. 

The priest is able to toss an amber spear at a chariot but only does 2 wounds. 

The sallie roasts another 5 goblins while skinks finish off the mangler. 

Orc Turn 2 

Warboss Hinge charges the ancient steg and slays it in a single round WAAAAAGH!!  The Gobbo warboss, angling to look good in front of his boss charges into a swamp and kills the Sallie, though taking a wound from the treacherous footing.  Finally, the Arock charges the building and kills 8 skinks, the survivors bravely holding his ground.  Other units maneuver, including two of the warmachines.  The troll fails an important march test.  And follws after his leader as best he can (I wanted to use him to divert the CO bus.  I knew I was going to be out of range of the general soon and felt it would give me another round of shooting.  Who knows, maybe he would survive and force a pursuit as well.  It was not to be. 

While two of its fellows are looking to get out of the way, one doom diver takes a shot at the skink unit, hoping to panic them off the board.  Unfortunately they are not easily scared off. 

Lizards Turn 3

The coldone bus charges a doom diver, overruns just short of the nigh goblins.  The terradones, while every other unit is looking to get out of the orcs arcs. 

Orc turn 3

The troll, now out of range of his master, fails a stupidity check.   The chariot charges the Terradons and wipes them out.  I thought about trying to overrun into the CO Bus but decided not to.  The Arock comes back from behind the house and along with the chariot and wolf riders, unlimber their shortbows.  In a rain of arrows, the skink priest takes three wounds, but makes 2 of his armor saves!  Damn scaly skin.  The bolt thrower kills two of the cold ones, while the doom diver takes out several more.  The NG Shaman decides it might be safer to leave his body guard. 

Lizard turn 4

The coldones charge the night goblins, then the shaman, both who flee.  Skinks move closer to targets for their javelins but fail to do any wounds. 

Orc Turn 4

With nowhere to hide the Basilidon must take a charge from Warboss hinge and is chased off the table.  The night goblins continue to flee while the Arock finally hunts down the skink priest.  The doom diver once again dismounts a couple of coldones. 

Lizard turn 5

The coldones brush the lone wolf rider aside and turns are getting quick.

Orc Turn 5

The gobo boss charges the skink priests unit.  The night goblins rally and prepare for another flee.  The Doom diver saves its best shot for last and brings the Cold one unit down to 1 model.  The Gobbo hero chases off the skink priest. 

Lizard turn 6

The coldone bus decides to go stupid!  The turn passes

Orc turn 6

The night goblins decide to go all heroic, fail an animosity and charge into the CO Bus.  The General rolls his eyes and declares the flank charge to support the NG.  The chariot tries to do the same but fails its charge. 

The night goblin summons up the great green and is able to get Sneaky stabin on the general.  The lizard BSB steps forward and challenges Warboss Hinge, in a fury, the Wyvern and Warboss smash the BSB who makes several re-rollable 6+  and 5+ to keep a single wound!  The night goblins surge forward and are able to drag down the last CO but are wiped out in return.  The warboss is forced to take leadership 8 check to stick and does so. 

We count it up and it is a very narrow victory to the Lizards, despite having only 2 models left on the board!  It was amazingly close at the end and could have easily gone my way.  The BSB failing one of those saves brings it to a draw.  Same with a single night goblin surviving.  Actually in the later, I win combat and the general would be forced to make a break test, who knows. 

My mistakes were mostly in deployment.  Knowing he could crush any single unit on the first turn, I should have had all my characters deployed outside of their units.  However, with the loss of my hardest unit and two important characters, the rest of my force was very fast and able to avoid combat and bleeding off many more points.  However, it just was not enough to make up for that first turn. 

I thoroughly enjoyed playing something different then the standard tournament style play.  It does not hurt that my opponent is a perennial Best Sports contender at any tournament he plays in!

I will need to fight my way off the beach once again, let’s hope it is a different scenario!  The Lizards get as their reward a free stratagem next game.  Tony and I will try and get the game in this month.